WAR ON WHISKY FAKERS

Whiskyfun
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THE BLACKLIST
Nicknames having sold
obvious fakes on eBay.
Don't touch!

baccusvr (Italy, brand new name of nonno_oreste - membership now closed)
brigidino61 (Italy)
caposiux (Firenze, Italy)
clubwhisky (New York, USA)
docccc (a.k.a malthunter, Munich, Germany)
lisas4199 (Lucca, Italy)
nonno_oreste (Italy)
portokalo2023 (Firenze, Italy)
roccobaroccorp (Italy)
silve1111 (La Spezia, Italy)
vinsanto81 (Italy)

THE GREYLIST
Nicknames that may well
sell fake(s) on eBay, maybe unknowingly
(the jury's still out.)
Be cautious.

1681968 (Italy)
loron444 (aulla, MS, Italy)
marcin3147 (UK? Poland?)
ppzzoo49nx (USA)
Bought a fake? Don't resell!

VERY IMPORTANT
Don't consider just any
eBay seller (from Italy
or else) as a forger.
Many are honest people.
Let's not generalise!

VARIOUS TIPS
1. NEVER, ever buy from a seller whose feedback is hidden.
2. HIGH POSITIVE feedback alone is no proof of honesty. Forgers know how to get loads of positive feedbacks without actual sales.
3. ASK for detailed pictures. Compare capsules and caps as well as shapes of bottles and colours of glass with pictures of genuine items.
4. BEWARE of Italian items that are only available to weird countries (such as Singapore - sorry guys).
5. BEWARE of old labels that are exceptionally clean.
6. BEWARE of coloured (painted) twist caps that are exceptionally shiny.
7. LOOK for traces of glue around labels and neck labels.
8. VERY RARE, never seen before versions for cheap simply DO NOT EXIST. Be sure that if you found one (by chance - or so you think), experienced collectors will have seen it as well. Check the counters!
9. BEWARE of sellers who change names to keep their former Feedback Score
10. CHECK if similar bottles have been exposed as forged or dodgy on this page
MORE WORTHY
TIPS LATER...


Let's join forces!

Hi compadre ! Yes, wasn't it about time we did something new against these forgers who sell fake or refilled bottles on eBay or elsewhere? I’ve been caught myself (at least four bottles I think within one year) and that really hit a nerve! That's why I decided to expose all forgeries (or even possible forgeries) on Whiskyfun’s main page and to simultaneously archive them on this central page.

We’ll also try to build a blacklist of sellers – not all Italian, believe me – and probably come up with several other useful tips and other bits of information.
With the Malt Maniacs, we already had such a page but were soon to find out that it was also a good way for the forgers to learn how to improve their disgusting fakes, so we just stopped doing it. Alas, that didn’t prevent eBay from getting stuffed with more and more of these f*ck*ng bottles in recent months, so I thought it was really about time we started something again.
So, more later as they say... We already got many reactions following our piece about the ‘refilled’ Suntory for American Forces (you’ll find it in the January 12 entry and hereunder as well) and we’ll post them in the coming days.

In the meantime, please send us any bits of information you’d have, whether dodgy bottles you’ve seen on eBay, information on rotten sellers, stories about fakes you bought (we all bought fakes so nothing to feel ashamed of, really), clever ideas, or anything you think would be useful to the community, thank you! The central email address for this is simply waronfakewhiskies (at gmail.com). Item numbers on eBay, pictures of fakes you bought or saw, explanations on why you think a bottle is a fake etc. will be of tremendous help!

<- Let's do it, let's lift our kilts and show these guys our... Yeah well, you see what I mean!


March 19 , 2008

Dear all, this was in the Scotsman on Sunday, March 16. More and more people should now be aware of what's happening... Especially Scottish distillers and bottlers! (thank you, Marc)


February 23, 2008

Dear all, here’s where we are. After having posted dozens of examples of either plain fake or dodgy bottles (we’ve got many more, alas), we hope that the friendly whisky community is now aware of what’s happening, and will be a little more cautious from now on when spotting ‘the bargain of the century’ on eBay or elsewhere. What’s more, it seems that there are less of these fakes for sale these days, and that some suspect sellers switched to selling genuine bottles for now. Excellent move, we hope it’ll last.

Anyway, we’ve already slowed down and we’ve now decided to stop posting such examples, as we wouldn’t like to make people more paranoid than needed - and because we'd hate to cause too much collateral damage. It’s certainly not our role to battle fakes forever! We’ve met or talked with several distillers and bottlers, and some of them have promised that they’ll improve the ways they can help the buyers avoiding fake or dodgy bottles. We’re currently working with them on this and of course shall post about the outcomes on this page.
The examples we’ve posted will remain online, at least for a few weeks. We’d also like to stress that when we wrote ‘dodgy’, that didn’t mean ‘fake’ of course. ‘Dodgy’ means that the war cabinet (and other collectors, friends etc.) has never seen a version such as the one that was advertised, but again and of course, that does not mean that a bottle is an obvious fake. Having said that, we’ll always be happy to post comments on this or that bottle that will explain why a bottle is NOT dodgy (or fake). In truth, we’re still to get any such comments regarding the bottles we’ve posted about, except for the recent Ardbeg 1990 (please read below). More later...


February 21, 2008

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: CLOSED AUCTIONS
Bottle: Ardbeg 1990/2004 55% cask strength
Date of auction: Feb. 10, eBay
Price: £147
Problem: capsule again

Comments: we've checked roughly 20 different bottles of this 1990, both for Japan and Europe, and all had golden/bronze capsules like the one on the left. Which means that this item on the right, that bears a black capsule (wrinkled, at that, but that may happen), is either a relabeled 'cheaper' version, or a refill on which someone has put back a capsule that was not the original one. Very dodgy, at best.
February 23 update: A FRIEND JUST REPORTED THAT HE OWNED TWO GENUINE BOTTLES OF THIS BEARING BLACK CAPSULES. These bottles were bought directly at the distillery.So, even if if all bottles we've seen had golden/bronze capsules, this example can't be classified as 'dodgy' anymore. It's not impossible that a few bottles were mistakenly 'capsuled' with black, and then sold at the distillery indeed. Good news, innit!

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: CLOSED AUCTIONS
Bottle: several Macallan 30yo blue label
Item number: 280192654466, 280200441404, 270209610658, 280194627042, 280196617618
Seller: ppzzoo49nx, USA
Date of auction: Feb. 08, eBay
Problem: various

Comments: same picture used for all these items. Whisky is probably too pale (the 30yo was very dark whisky). No boxes (seller says he/she bought the bottles in Italy and wanted to make room in luggage). And, most importantly, no lot number whatsoever on back of front label (confirmed by a buyer). Every genuine bottle should have this number. We think that you should never buy one of these Macallans at auctions, especially when they don't come with their original boxes.
Now, the seller has many genuine items, so maybe he/she is not aware of te fact that these ones are dodgy.


February 18, 2008

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: LIVE AUCTIONS
Bottle: Ardbeg 17yo
Item number: 220202134031
Seller: clubwhisky, USA
Date of auction: Feb. 19, eBay
Problem: label

Comments: pale, grey colour of label instead of full black, golden letters that don't shine at all, 'ripples' on paper... This has probably been made using just a simple PC printer. It is to be noted that the seller added a strange comment to the item's eBay page, that just proves that he's selling fakes knowingly. Or should we say 'replicas'?...

'THIS BOTTLES AUTHENTICITY IS IN QUESTION - PLEASE BID AT YOUR OWN RISK - THERE WILL BE NO REFUNDS - THIS IS A FINAL SALE. YOU ARE ADVISED TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING!
Well, we think he should have withdrawn the item! But this also reminded me of two other dodgy examples that a good friend had sent to me a few days ago. These bottles had been sold to him privately by a big Italian eBay seller whose nickname we won't disclose just now because we never saw other obvious fakes from him.

Yes, same make, obviously. What's even funnier (so to speak) is that our friend gathered a few co-tasters and decided to try these head-to-head with a regular 10yo. Guess what, they were unable to make any differences. No need to say that all these are plain fakes!

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: CLOSED AUCTIONS
Bottle: Macallan Private Eye
Item number: 110222936174
Date of auction: Feb. 13, eBay (unsold)
Problem: let's see...

Comments: can you spot the dodgy bottle? (once again, please don't bother with whisky colours)... Exactly the fourth from the right! And once again, it's the capsule that doesn't look quite right. As far as we know, the Macallan 'Private Eye' (limited to 5000 bottles) never came with the regular golden capsule but with this black one. Maybe a genuine bottle that's been refilled and recapped. Dodgy at best...


February 10, 2008

QUICK UPDATE FROM THE FRONT
We've got many more examples of fakes and shall post a few of them in the near future. If you contacted us recently, and are awaiting an answer, please be patient, thank you. In the meantime, we're meeting with distillers and trying to make them organise the way they could help the buyers avoiding fakes a little better. More on this later!


February 6, 2008

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: CLOSED AUCTIONS
Bottle: Ardbeg 1980 Kildalton
Item number: 320193220206
Date of auction: 14.12.07, eBay Price: EUR 500.00
Problem: capsule?

As far as we know, the 1980 ‘Kildalton’ always came with a golden/bronze capsule (left) and not the usual dark green/black one (right, item that was sold). However this could well be a lighting issue and the tax strip hides most of it on the picture anyway. What’s sure is that this goes to show how important it is to ask for detailed pictures whenever a bottle looks a bit suspicious after you’ve compared it with pictures of authentic bottles that you can find on various websites (collectors, retailers, auction houses etc.) Anyway, only the buyer of the bottle could now tell us if he got a bottle bearing a golden/bronze cap or a dark green/black one – in that case it may well be a refill or a ‘simpler’ Ardbeg on which somebody stuck a genuine label.

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: CLOSED AUCTIONS
Bottles: Bruichladdich miniatures
Place: eBay
Problem: doubles?
Comments: these two minis at the left aren't the same, are they? The caps are different, the neck is different... (again, please don't bother with colours)...


	Now, look a little closer... Yes, amazingly the stains on both labels are exactly the same. These two minis were sold by the same seller (usually a serious seller, so he's probably been swindled himself) to two collectors who happen to be friends, that's how they found out about this.

So, the labels have probably been photocopied or reprinted by some forger, who even photocopied the original stains! Unless the bottler did that himslef thirty years ago, that is, which is quite unlikely. This case left us speechless; imagine somebody would have done that on minis that are worth, say EUR 10! Anyway, it's best to always have a close look at any stains, and to check whether they have been printed or not. What? The large stain at the middle? No, that's the Isle of Islay... ;-)


February 4, 2008

HOT TIP! HOW TO DETECT A DODGY SALE
Bottle: four old Macallans
Item number: 120215795116
Date of auction: 01.02.08, eBay
Price: EUR 704.00

OK, we just cannot state that these four marvellous old Macallans are fakes, because the pictures are much too small. Sure, they are a little suspicious (high levels, ‘too good to be true’, brand new seller, bidders’ ID kept fully private etc) but who knows, maybe it was a true bargain! However, it’s always very interesting to have a closer look at a sale’s history... Please see below:

Right, what do we notice? Usually, bidders who really want to win an auction will go above a psychological price point, and not right below it. In other words, if you want to sell, say a bottle of whisky, you’ll put it a EUR 99.90 rather than at EUR 100.10, but if you’re a bidder at an auction you’ll indeed put your bid at 100.10 (or 103, 107, whatever), thus trying to ‘kill’ competition. So, what do we notice here? Some anonymous bidders have put strange bids, typically sellers’ bids. Check the red arrows we added to the picture, is that fishing or what? And then, a few minutes before the auction’s closing time, somebody (probably a true buyer) spotted this amazing bargain: four old and rare Macs for EUR 699! So he put a max bid at, say 717 – pure conjecture – and won the auction. Of course, this is no proof of anything, and all bids may well have been ‘genuine’, but all this is a bit dodgy, isn’t it! As for the number of bidders (9), this doesn’t mean anything because dodgy sellers use multiple nicknames as we all know. Anyway, again, it’s always better to check an auction’s history before you put a bid.


February 2, 2008

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: BUY IT NOW ITEM
Bottle: Caol Ila 1976 Samaroli
Item number: 330208915897
Date of auction: 08.02.08, eBay
Price: EUR 399.00
Problem: refill?

	The two pictures at the left show the bottle that's currently on offer on eBay. Yes but look at this other auction that took place on eBay on September 7 (item #170146258706):

	That's right, three empty bottles without caps (manca il tappo) were sold for EUR 50 to our friend portokalo2023, including this empty Coal Ila bearing exactly the same number, 216 of 390!

Comments: we don't have the pictures of the original sale (they expired from google's cache) but except if this is a misprint, that is to say if two or more bottles were bearing the same numbers at time of bottling, which we doubt of course, this a a refill made by Portokalo2023 (no longer a member of eBay). The current seller of this bottle could well have been swindled himself, as his records and reputation are rather good. Of course he's got every rights to post his comments here, should he send them to us.

16:15 update : and here's the picture of the empty bottle(s) as it was sold on September 7.! Thanks to a very dedicated 'anti-fake warrior'.
Other update: the seller of the (probably) refilled bottle just confirmed that he had bought it from the guy who had bought the empty (portokalo2023).As expected, it seems that he's been swindled indeed. More later.

18:40 update : the seller cancelled the auction. He wasn't aware of the fact that this was a refill and was rather the victim here. Thank you, case closed.


January 30, 2008

MORE ON DODGY CAPUSLES (tin foils). When spotting an awful looking capsule (large wrinkles, looseness etc.) it’s not very easy to come to conclusions. Was the bottle fondled? Was the capsule put back by hand after a refill? Or is it plain normal? The first thing to do is to check on retailers or collectors’ websites if other similar bottles display the same kind of problem.

It can’t be very normal, as not all bottlers have/had state of the art bottling equipment. If they don’t, it may well still be ‘normal’, because we all know that whisky expands when exposed to higher temperatures. That may push the cork and the foil that’s over it out of the bottle a bit, and usually its owner would then try to put it back in place, causing these ‘wrinkles’ or ‘crimping’ to appear on the capsule. Such bottles should command lower prices at auctions, even when probably plain genuine, but please first check if not all known bottles display the same kind of 'problems'.
Also, we got questions about a Leapfrog Murray McDavid that had a golden capsule instead of the more common orange one. It's been confirmed by the bottler that in their early days, they used to put either capsules depending on what they had in stock (even if the golden ones are less 'common'). So, no reasons to panic here...


January 29, 2008

FAKE BOTTLE CASES?
Bottle: Ardbegs with Italian tax strips
Problem: unlikely tax strips?
Comments: we've got quite some questions regarding these two bottles, especially about their Italian tax strips...

At the left, an Ardbeg Very Young 'For Discussion' that, we believe, was only available at, or from the distillery. Yet, this bottle carries an Italian tax strip. At the right, an Ardbeg Very Old 30yo, that was bottled in the 1990's but that carries the 'new' design of the Italian UTIF tax strip, the latter having replaced the older design in 2005.
So, does that make these two bottles 'dodgy'? Well, what's sure is that any potential buyer may ask the seller why his bottle carries such an unlikely tax strip, because the strip might simply have been applied to reassure the buyer that the bottle was originally sealed (whilst in reality it was opened and closed again). But it's in no way proof that the bottle is dodgy.

Indeed, it can happen that a profesional reseller, who bought bottles in the open market (while intending to resell them or not), has to put these tax strips at a certain point even if the bottle wasn't previously imported by, well, the official importer, because the Italian Guardia Finanza (or another governmental body) asked him to do so. In that case, the tax strips will simply be brand new ones. That happened, for instance, to a famous Italian collector and retailer, who had to put new tax strips on thousands of old bottles that he had previously accumulated. In any case, it's always better to ask the seller about all that before bidding.


January 28, 2008

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: LIVE AUCTIONS
Bottle: Macallan 25 Anniversary 1962 and 1958
Item number: 110218522012, 110218522910
Seller: silve1111, La Spezia, Italy
Date of auction: 29.01.08, eBay
Problem: same stock as before... and pictures!

Comments: please check our January 25 entry, these bottles have the same problem when zooming in. What's interesting is that several new Italian sellers appeared right on January 25, including this one who goes straight onto our blacklist. What's more, he didn't even bother with putting different pictures of the 1958 (picture, left) and 1962 (picture, right)!

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: LIVE AUCTIONS
Bottle: Macallan 1945 SOLD AS DUMMY
Item number: 300193740015
Date of auction: 31.01.08, eBay
Problem: not yet...

Comments: the seller has every right to sell this dummy (there's only coloured water in the bottle) I guess, but it's amazing that it's already at US $225.00. What's more, he's announcing that he'll also list a 1952, 1965 and 1971 in the future. Let's just hope that dirtier hands won't be reselling it as genuine in the future (but there are clues on the labels, so be sure we'll be vigilant).

FAKE BOTTLE CASE? - CATEGORY: LIVE AUCTIONS
Bottle: Talisker 1953 40% G&M black label
Item number: 220180821569
Seller: clubwhisky, NYC, USA
Date of auction: 11.12.08, eBay
Problem: too new!

Comments: Several pieces of evidence that this bottle is very dodgy. First, the seller notoriously sells fakes made in Italy. Second, all detailed pictures just won’t be displayed on the page (something to hide?) and third, the label looks extraordinarily new. Even such old bottles that have been protected by their boxes don’t look that new, especially since both large black and gold printings are rather fragile. No plain evidence that this is a fake just from the picture, but we think it’s dodgy at best.

Macallan 25


January 25, 2008