Feis Ile, Lagavulin Day Special


May 25, 2024

Feis Ile, Lagavulin Day Special - Interview

"With one
or two exceptions,
I think it's very silly."

Today, we are republishing a little gem, an interview with Mike Nicolson that we first published on Malt Maniacs back in 2004, twenty years ago, which then quite quickly disappeared from the web, for reasons I can't quite recall.

I am often asked what has changed in the whisky world over the past twenty years. The industry would invariably respond that they have gained a better understanding of maturation and wood, which has enabled them to offer even better whiskies while realising that age ultimately doesn't matter much. Hmm.
In truth, I think that just reading this twenty-year-old interview, published here unchanged and, of course, with Mike's permission, will suffice to give a better answer to that question.
But who is Mike Nicolson? A former Distillery Manager of several entities, including Lagavulin where he also used to organise extraordinary blues concerts with his own band, Mike retired twenty years ago and moved to Vancouver Island, from where he had responded to this interview at the time. Since then, distillers from around the world have sought his immense talent and he remains active to this day.
I hope you enjoy reading or re-reading this old interview as much as I did, even though I now realise some of my questions were a bit silly! But Mike knows how to brilliantly answer even the most foolish questions, all while avoiding the automatic corporate language that unfortunately adorns 99% of interviews, making them seem or sound like mere PR pieces rewritten by ChatGPT...
(While you read this interview, you might also enjoy listening to Mike sing the blues and play the guitar with his band Michigan Curve, even though this album wasn't recorded in the old Malt Mill that time. I love it! You'll also find it on Spotify)

Lets go...

Mike Nicolson's interview

By Serge
December 18, 2004 (republished integrally May 25, 2024)

Trying to explain to you how I came to having a chat with one of the most malicious, most professional and remoter (to Scotland, no need to say) retired distillery managers and blues guitarist would be way too long and complicated, as were notably involved some 10-packs of French cigarettes, an ex-racoon, Ron Sexmith – the singer, the Oban lifeboat and Dr Nick Morgan, of Diageo fame. Yes, no less… But if you want to learn which colours you should never wear when visiting a distillery, why Lagavulin is magic or whether whisky is better today or not, please read on… And oh, by the way, please warn your family and your neighbours, you might well burst into laughter from time to time!

Q// Mike, you were the Manager at Blair Athol, Lagavulin and finally Lochnagar just before you retired. Were there other distilleries you've been working at?

MN// Are you sitting comfortably?

Firstly, Caol Ila is missing from your list, which I had the privilege of Managing during my time on Islay and if you wanted to get me in trouble with Billy, Flora and the "Black Hand Gang", missing it out would be a good way of doing it. You don't want to get me in trouble, do you?

Prior to the places already mentioned, I was managing Glenkinchie but, that was a long time ago and it will be safe to drink now as all the stuff I made will have been consumed already.

In a junior management capacity, Linlithgow (St. Magdalene), Hillside (Glenesk), Linkwood and Muir of Ord.

There is another list of briefer working visits, dating back to the time when men walked in front of automobiles with red flags – Glen Albyn, Glen Mhor, Rosebank, Aultmore, Cardhu, The original Caol Ila, Dallas Dhu, Dalwhinnie, Benromach, Millburn, Teaninich and Glentauchers.

Q// Wow, there's almost only Mannochmore missing! I'd have loved to ask you a few questions about Loch Dhu… Anyway, what was the biggest change moving from Blair Athol to Lagavulin/Caol Ila and then to Lochnagar?

MN// Well, the weather for a start. Snow &big floods, to a place so windy that on most days everyone has the same hairstyle, to more snow and Big hills and, the folks of course, always different, thank God.

For the technophobes: - distillation régimes and levels of technology. For the sociable: - the amount of interaction with the customers.

Blair Athol spirit character is such that it requires to be distilled rather quickly, Lagavulin on the other hand, has the longest and slowest spirit run that I have ever seen. At Lochnagar the object was to maintain a spirit character that would not normally be delivered by the design of the plant there. Tricky eh?

Blair Athol, when I spent time there, was technologically very sophisticated and energy efficient but the layout seemed to have been designed by a blind man having a bad day. The change from traditional mash house plant, at Lagavulin, to something a bit more up to date, happened during my tenure and, that is always a good time to find out how paranoid you actually are. The Lochnagar equipment is without a great deal of sophistication but as I suggested before, you have to sort of keep your eye on it.

One of the biggest changes in the business during my time, was the development of distilleries as educational and marketing tools which means, that Managers get to meet the customers face to face and learn stuff.

Blair Athol being sighted in a big tourist town, conducts its visitor facilities as you might expect, for large numbers, in support of its malt and as a key ingredient of it's well known associated blend, whose name escapes me for the moment. To run an enterprise of this nature requires a different Manager's skill set to be developed, for which he/she might find violent rages, formal executions, cross dressing and low standards of personal hygiene, to be fairly unhelpful.

Lagavulin, being sited where it is, means that not many people go there. It also means that a high proportion of those that do find their way there come by way of a pilgrimage, therefore paying the ultimate homage to the magic liquid. So, there you have it, lovely people, albeit pleasantly obsessed, bit of time to talk to them, occasional requests for the Manager's autograph or small fragments of his clothing, well, tough job huh?

Lochnagar, as home of the Malt Advocate Course (1), takes this personal interaction thing to another level. The Manager at that particular establishment, persuaded/ pushed/ordered/blackmailed by a Marketing department who, daily, have to be talked out of invading Poland, gets to tell people the truth about the mysteries of the production of some of the best Malt Whiskies around. Fortunately, he is assisted in this endeavour by an outstanding collection of "experts", some of whom have moustaches, large livers, wonderfully bad attitudes and are patrons of the Oxford Bar.

The job specification is an interesting read, involving sleep deprivation, a precise knowledge of the location of pharmacies and their opening hours, the ability to cope with anxiety levels similar to a crew member of Apollo Five and, being good at herding cats. The successful applicant will be rewarded by meeting lots of wonderful people from all over the World including, fellow employees, a large proportion of whom appear to be fundamentally disturbed and, additional reward is provided by being supported by the remarkable Distillery staff and, of course, Lucy (2).

Q// I must say Lagavulin really has a cult status. Are there specific reasons for that, except the fact that it's a great dram from Islay?

MN// Yes, although that's a pretty fundamental exception, it's magic.
I dunno completely how it works, that people will name their children after the place but, it has drama.

Having spent four years watching winter storms, some of them in July, from that house on the point, it's something that you don't forget in a hurry.

History was normally something we read about when we wore short trousers but, it's not usually something you go to work in every day. Not that I ever was an avid history student but after just a little time there, you know that you are part of a community which has been there for a very, very long time indeed when you can walk over to the castle and see the remains of the sea gate, where the long ships were pulled up.

After that, you're into that continuum thing where you are reminded that life is short and that you are following on from those that went before, who made an exceptional spirit in that place, for generations.

Then of course there are the people that work there. They are similarly exceptional. Gentle, proud, funny, creative and too supportive of "White Settlers" like me, just passing through.

And the other good thing is, that they all have long memories so, you can hear the stories like," The mash house ghost" or, how Big Angus spent the Chairman's visit locked in a cupboard. Killer stuff. The place seems to have a propensity to attract eccentrics or perhaps it just provides the opportunity for them to flourish, like Sir Peter Mackie, a hugely successful entrepreneur but a nutter none the less.
So, like I said, I dunno, s'magic.

Q// Oh yes, the people! I remember last time I visited the distillery with a few other maniacs… Pinky was our guide, and he really made my day. Little man, huge personality! I guess you worked with him…

MN// Pinky is a star. Vertically challenged he may be but ………….. He's big in Japan.

Q// It's not that I want to insist too much on Lagavulin, but the Lagavulin Distiller's Editions are excellent drams – the recent 1987 just won a Malt Maniacs Award - how do you feel about the wider spreading of the practice of 'finishes"?

MN// With one or two exceptions, I think it's very silly.

Q// Well, at least that's a clear answer! So, apart of these 'finishings', what's the biggest improvement in production since you started working?

MN// The way my former employer encouraged Managers to treat the folks that make the liquids. When I started in the business as a young man, things got done because the boss said so, period. Thinking, most forms of creativity, and involvement out with your own discipline just didn't happen much. By the time I left the business the boys and girls "on the floor" were performing formerly management functions, bringing all of their individual skills to the benefit of the workplace, demanding involvement and decision making powers. A transformation and, from my point of view, as a Manager, a delight.

Q// I see. And what's the piece of 'tradition' you regret has disappeared since you started working?

MN// Flogging the employees and the Manager's right to the local virgins, yeah, it was bad when that went.

Q// Oh, so what I heard wasn't just a rumour! ;-) But 'technically' speaking? I mean, direct-fired stills, European casks, open-air worm condensers… You know, the anoraks like us will always suspect the industry is trashing tradition to make more profit. Maybe it's a myth, and whisky's actually better nowadays than it used to be…

MN// Christ Serge, an interview was ok but if you want a book, I might need a little lie down first.

Personally, I believe that it's pretty plain that whisky today is better than it used to be.

If you started a business, today, that involved hundreds of geographically scattered entrepreneur types doing their own thing with limited education, low levels of technology, poor communication and no minimum quality standards and where everywhere was a long walk to the pub, I would be surprised if your expectation of success would be great. If you look back to the first time it became generally commercially "visible", it was drunk, often, as a "cordial" i.e. it was so bad, that you had to put stuff in it to get it down your neck.

And what happened? Well, progress. Science happened. People got smarter, experience and communication developed, folks got organized, sometimes even into these contemptible things called "companies". Someone wrote down some rules. Blenders happened. Customers (markets) happened. Everybody sobered up.

As far as change, improvement and innovation are concerned, those have been intrinsic parts of the business since it became one, this is not something new that just snuck up on us. Look at the grain still for instance, without which we wouldn't be having this nice chat because the business would have gone to the wall round about 1890. The key of course, is not change but, responsible change. I can't speak for other Corporations but, the one I used to work for seemed to understand what most of the good bits are, like what whiskies do you make? Why do they taste the way they do? How do you consistently keep them like that? And, where do they fit in the business? If you know this stuff then there are some areas, product quality for instance, where your attitude to change is going to be and, I know this is a relative word, conservative. I would like to tell you that I enjoyed all the change that came my way, and yes every organization has a percentage of wild eyed, master of the universe types that would "sort out" the business by making all Scotland's malt whisky at one giant distillery just outside Paisley but, if you know what the good bits are, then there is usually someone around to make sure that these people are properly medicated.

I know that when they showed up tomorrow, the film crew that is, that they would be thrilled if they found everyone wearing wooden shoes, working by paraffin lamps with hacking coughs, missing digits and Franz and List but, maybe it's not a bad thing that we left that behind. At this point I should declare a vested interest. The whisky business has fed three generations of my family, some of whom were/are Romantics, so, this change stuff has actually been pretty good for the Nicolsons.

(Author's note :-) Nicolson, small and historically insignificant bunch, more of a gang than a clan, quite content to be continually bossed about by the MacLeods, apparently, you know, fetching their slippers, that sort of thing. After two thousand years of hanging about, they finally do show up to fight. Where? Culloden. (Nice going boys.)

Anyway Serge, at the next Maniac's convention, gimmie a call when you all go down to the beach with your forks, I could make some serious money from that kind of photo opportunity.

Q// It's true that there is clearly a debate between the maltheads who like a little mystique and the ones who think we should stick to the proven facts, what are your ideas?

MN// Well, what's to argue about? They're both right.

With a History stretching over many hundreds of years making a product that remains an intrinsic part of Scottish culture and therefore, with thousands of stories to tell, it would be a bit dumb not to take advantage of our good fortune and use some of them. By dint of our inheritance though, making them up would render one as uncool as it was possible to be. Nor do I think that to convincingly use the romance that surrounds our product, one has to act like some backward Scottish hayseed, dressed like an advertisement for shortbread. Remember the Gospel according to Dr. Morgan (3), Chapter fourteen, Verse nine, "Customers want to buy a real product, made in real places, by real people".

Yea, verily.

Now, the facts. The first thing to remember is, that often in spite of appearances to the contrary, whiskypersons don't know everything. Compared to our forefathers, we know tons but, happily, the product is so complicated that we will all be a long time dead, for example, before the last mysteries of maturation have been unravelled.

A lot of the reason for this conflict is the producers' fault. In days gone by, before we knew what we know now, marketers would tell the customers what they thought the customers wanted to hear. The surprise, that there may be other reasons for individual spirit character, other than the magic Scottish water or that the stillman is left handed and wears a kilt, is therefore, kinda understandable.

The fact is, that not only do the producers now know more but, so do their customers. Bit of catching up to do I think?

Me? I'm in the romantic truth camp.

Q// Yes, but some people within the industry clearly get puzzled by these anoraks (us!) who want to know a little more than what's written in the ads. What do you think?

MN// I wouldn't worry about it if I were you; the industry is full of people who are easily puzzled.

After all they were puzzled by gravity, the internal combustion engine, non-refillable fitments, how m&m's don't melt in your hand, that that really is Dave Broom's own hair, the tooth fairy and, like the rest of us, the fact that Keef is still with us.

Personally, I like anoraks, inquisitive, challenging, good for the grey matter.

Mind you, I might have to re-evaluate my position if my daughter brought one home. No, on reflection, that would probably be better than the procession of Neanderthals she seems to be specialising in at the moment. After all, anoraks have mastered the art of walking, communicate above the level of a grunt and most of them don't drool.

If I have one teeny weeny criticism, it's that in their relentless and all-consuming thirst for anorak knowledge, sometimes, they can take their eye off the ball.

Like caramel for instance. (Don't mail me Germany, I'm not in.)

Oh and the other thing is, and this is a bit delicate, couldn't we get them to dress a bit better? I mean, come on folks, it's actually ok to wear socks and even Martha Stewart thinks that yellow and orange don't go together.

Q// He he he, I really understand. It happens often that when visiting a distillery with some other maltheads, I feel I should say to the guide 'Look, I'm not with them, I promise!' Now, what puzzles me even more is seeing some guys visiting, say Lagavulin with an Ardbeg sweater, a Bruichladdich baseball cap and a pair of Laphroaig socks… Now, can you tell us how was life on Islay and why did you move to Canada? Any similarities?

MN// Life on Islay was engaging. Special place. Lovely people, big sense of "togetherness" as opposed to that overused and much devalued word, "community". The invisible support network, that visitors would never see, was wonderful. Someone always knew the person who could help you with whatever the problem was, often, before you knew that you had a problem.

Why move to Canada? Well, public service really, so that my friend would have somewhere nice to come for his holidays.

Similarities? Since I live on Vancouver Island, you have to get a ferry to get here. That is the only thing that is similar.

What are more noticeable are the differences, here's a list:-

There are roads here, not just a lot of corners joined together.

Nobody called "W" lives here.

The ferry crew was not trained at the Slobodan Milosevic School of customer care.

We got traffic lights.

The band goes on before midnight.

We got trees, lots of them. I mean more trees than you could shake a stick at, if you know what I mean. That's trees as far as the eye can f----ing see. We got trees in places other countries don't have trees. We're treed. Big time.

There is no Co-op.

The electricity stays on all the time.

If you get into a fight with a policeman, he will not come round the next day just to check that you are ok.

Q// Nick Morgan told me you're a blues guitarist extraordinaire, and it's true that some aficionados fondly remember your gigs on Islay, with your band. Do you know some other musicians who, like us, are whisky aficionados?

MN// I would need to refer you to the huge but underestimated talent that is Mr. Adrian Byron Burns. Giant voice, astonishing guitar technique, cross genre repertoire, a Gentleman and, I feel sure, available for bookings in your area. Tell him Uncle Mike is looking for his ten percent. Adrian's label is Private Edition and never, never miss a live show.

Q// Great, I just listened to a few mp3s he did put on his website – in the 'CD' section. He's really excellent, thanks for the tip! Two last, short questions now, if you please… Do you remember your first dram?

MN// Listen, I'm retired, I have trouble with yesterday.

Q// Ah… and what's your favourite dram?

MN// When did you stop beating your wife?

Q// Okay, okay, the one you dislike most, then?

MN// The guy that plays cement mixer on Metallica's second last album. Wasn't that three questions?

Ha ha, I can see that even if some are now retired, they didn't lose too many of their 'corporate' reflexes, did they? Anyway, thanks a bunch, Mike, it's been a huge pleasure. I hope you'll come again and play the blues during the Islay Festival in the coming years!

(Mike Nicolson, Serge Valentin, December 18, 2004)

------------------------------

Footnotes added 2024

(1) Malts Advocates Course - an in-depth experiential training programme set up by the Diageo Malts team in 1998 for Diageo malt marketeers around the world, trade customers and writers, based at Royal Lochnagar. Mike was the first host. It was rolled out to distillery staff as 'Malt Advocates for Operators'. Charlie Maclean and Dave Broom gave an independent point of view alongside Diageo experts such as Jim Beveridge and Neil Cochrane (both now retired).

(2) Lucy Pritchard - a long-serving member of the Diageo Malts team

(3) Dr Nick Morgan - formerly Global Marketing Director for Malts Whiskies at Diageo, now author and writer

A Little Lagavulin 16 just to Thank Mike

We'll just add a little tasting note, a Lagavulin of course. We taste Lagavulin 16 almost every year; it's one of the few expressions we closely follow. However, we had never tried a 2016 batch, yet we had a bottle hidden at the back of a shelf... (really, any excuse will do). In any case, this spirit was probably distilled in 1999 or 2000, indeed under the guidance of Mike Nicolson.

Lagavulin 16 yo (43%, OB, +/- 2016)

One of those renowned malt expressions that 'never really stayed what they previously were' over the years, at least since 2000, if not earlier. But no! As Duke Ellington said, 'Things ain't what they used to be,' and this is evident in all areas. As we ourselves age, past versions seem to improve, but of course, it's mainly us who change, not so much the whiskies (well, maybe a little). "The older I get, the faster I was," said racing driver Stirling Moss. Anyway, for me and if I look back at all my notes, Lagavulin has remained a superb whisky, sometimes leaning a bit more towards the sherry side, other times more on the tar and natural rubber side (BDSM outfit, some less reputation-conscious friends would say). Colour: gold. Nose: bravo Mike and gang! It's perfect, fresh and precise, salty, with just a hint of coffee, black olives, mandarins, leather, tobacco, liquorice, and heathery earth… This is truly what one can call a classic. Mouth: perfect, one of the rare whiskies that holds the 43% ABV perfectly without ever feeling hollow. Anyway, Lagavulin is never hollow; you just need to carefully avoid those flavoured with rum or tequila, completely unnecessary and incomprehensible treatments – should we expect the worst in the coming years? What would Mike think? Sea water, salt, coffee, bay leaf, leather, olives, tar, and really a lot of peat… Finish: surprisingly long for its strength. Pepper, salt, Seville oranges, tobacco, liquorice, tar, leather… Comments: it's a shame, its price has gone up and it's found much less often in bars and restaurants. It used to be my go-to whisky in those places.
SGP: 567 - 90 points.

Check the index of all Lagavulin we've tasted so far